Foreign Players on Benfica

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Re: Foreign Players on Benfica

Postby Miralem » Sun Aug 07, 2011 8:10 am

well i think its nice having more european players around, BUT what i think should happen is a wage cap and fifa making teams only have 9 foriegners in the squad. that would also boost youth production
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Re: Foreign Players on Benfica

Postby ja_santacruz » Sun Aug 07, 2011 8:23 am

Hey guys, thanks for being understanding.

Looking ahead?

We are a Port. We bring players knowing well that our aim is too sell them to make a turnover.

The point is, look at the German league. Look at Dortmund. Look at how the National side is improving. They have focused on developing their youth.

You mentioned endless Portuguese players before, do you genuinely believe that they will return and play for the club? Benfica has the worst reputation with loaning players out.

But it's like I said, a lot of fans are happy if we win the Champions League in a few years with an entirely foreign team. I for one would not be. Neither was I when Inter won it. I had to say that tactically where spot on. But was I happy? no.

We forget our past. We were a glorious team, who's large percentage of players where Portuguese. It was a real honor to play for the club, used to wear our hearts on our sleeves.

Are you seriously going to tell me any of our current foreign "Benfiquistas" would honestly care as much and try as much as a home grown Benfiquista?

I'm not against Foreign players, but it needs to be in moderation. It is about time a foreign limit was introduced. And a homegrown player rule used. Think of the unemployed players in Portugal that teams are refusing for cheaper foreign alternatives.
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Re: Foreign Players on Benfica

Postby Mdot » Sun Aug 07, 2011 12:27 pm

ja_santacruz I get where you're coming from but you have to realize banning people based on their nationality is a dangerous thing without any way of knowing if it will bring success or where it may lead. If you look at the past and present guys like Eusebio and Pepe may have never gotten a chance. Yes they are foreigners just like many of us in other countries (Canada for myself) and they got a shot to work for our clubs. They liked it in Portugal and even if when they decided to move on they still wanted to represent Portugal. Luisao and Maxi are not Portuguese but these guys have committed so much to our team. Breaking down our team on nationality/race vs. their quality as individuals could do more damage than good.

You used the German league as an example, they're economy has been and is the best in Europe. Their fans and clubs have way more money then what we see in our nation. In addition sponsors pay more to their teams. With a player limit it would not impact the top leagues like the EPL, La Liga, Bundesliga, and Serie A, but our Liga like many others would be weaker from it.

I'm not saying I'm happy with not having a superstar that is Portuguese on our team but at the same time I am happy watching guys like Rodrick and Nelson who have been growing because of our club and are doing well for our national team. They will be the next wave of good Portuguese talent to hit our team. Throw in a few guys like Vitor, Fabio, David, etc... and if these guys can show their value we will have more Portuguese on our team.

Based on your rules we would be forced to play Portuguese players. Do you think Ruben is better than Nico or Maxi? I don't and I think being forced to do so would make our team less competitive in Europe. I'm more for a salary cap in Europe which would make players think if going to Chelsea, Real, ManU, etc... is worth it if they get paid the same at home. That way we're not stuck field players that can't cut it elsewhere but fielding players based on their desire to be on our teams.
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Re: Foreign Players on Benfica

Postby ja_santacruz » Sun Aug 07, 2011 4:24 pm

I take your point on board. And it is a good one. It is nice to have somebody to discuss this with, and by no means am I trying to start an argument of anything of the sort :ok (Just incase that's how it is coming across)

Of course it is dangerous to play with the theory of not allowing foreigners. What I believe would be good for the club/nation would be to force a three player home grown rule.

But, you look at Eusebio, at the time he came from a Portuguese Colony.

Pepe/Deco/Liedson I was always against playing for the national team, because they are Brazilian. If they had been able to play for Brazil they would have done so over Portugal.

I don't believe loaning out our youngsters constantly is developing them well. We have to have the worst youth setup over the past years. We seem to think loaning players out will solve the issue. It doesn't they need to play for our club. Percentage wise, if we send a player out on loan he will not come back and play for the club as a first team regular.

I for one, know that If the squad was playing an important Champions League game, I would be far more liable to pay hundreds to get there and watch them if there were Portuguese players playing. It is hard to feel as though there is a connection with the squad. When 1. None are Benfiquista's, there not. If a better offer came from elsewhere they would go. 2. They are not Portuguese, they do not share the same principles.

1990's was the best era promise wise for Portugal. With the golden generation. When you look at which clubs these players where playing. A lot of them where in Portugal. Look now, and it's not the case. And we certainly do not have the same promise in player quality.

You mention there economy being better off. So fans would be in theory able to afford to go to matches.

Well,

Portugal once was the nation of the three F's

Fado...Fatima...Futebol...

If there is a mutual connection people will go to games to watch. Fans love to feel a connection with players, but many no longer bother. Including me.... These players will soon leave, if not then they will gladly say they will move if an offer comes in.

A long time gone is the time when players would interact with fans, where stories would be heard of players talking to villages about there time at the club. Now, they play/they train and that is it. Otherwise than that most of the time it is transfer rumours...

It is not entirely just Benfica, it is the way of the footballing world unfortunately now.

We don't have a player in the squad that suffered for the cause....

No Joao Pinto who played through injury, no Mantorras who played while under pain killers (The man had to be carried by Miguel after matches), no Nuno Gomes who always served the club well..... No Paulo Madeira..... These where symbols of the club......

We wear our stars on our emblem now, but we are a shade of the team and setup of the glory years......
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Re: Foreign Players on Benfica

Postby Mdot » Sun Aug 07, 2011 5:32 pm

I get your point. I just feel that it's not as much of a foreigner problem as it is players not wanting to stay in our league for too long because of the big money clubs are offering players. I look at Fabio and how he talked a storm about staying regardless of pay and he wanted to be here for life to just only leave a couple months afterwards for money. I think to me that was the last straw on my back when it came to caring about Portuguese players. We held out for his full buyout clause and still we couldn't keep him.

Without a salary cap this will not stop. On the other hand I am very excited for the Portuguese youth we do have. I do think that loaning out players to the right clubs is way better than sitting on the bench and getting a couple of games at best. Vitor and Rodrigo look way better after 1 season out. Nelson is lighting it up at the U-20. These kids have all improved since last season.

From a business stand point Benfica have greatly improved over the past 4years. We are selling players for big money and being extremely start on how we spend it. We continue to be able to increase our salaries a bit more. I think we are getting to a stage where it is becoming harder for clubs to take our players. This will help once these Portuguese kids join the main team. If we can pay them more they may actually stay and not BS us like Fabio did.

To me the future looks very good for our club but at the end of the day titles will make me happy.
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Re: Foreign Players on Benfica

Postby CowCoentrao » Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:16 pm

I think the root of the problem is from the smaller Portuguese teams.

Take this for example. Benfica just sold Fabio Coentrao and needed a new left back. Of course fans would like to see a Portuguese player replacing him, but who could Benfica sign? Look at every team and almost all the starting LBs are foreigners.

Benfica can still use more of their youth products like Nelson Oliveira and Roderick Miranda. But that only fixes half the problem. Players like Fabio Coentrao made it because small teams gave them chances, and they were able to get the attention of the big teams.
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Re: Foreign Players on Benfica

Postby SLB » Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:20 pm

Fo me I do not have any problem with foreign players as long as they play for the shirt of Benfica....what more can you want?....In every European league there are non nationals and this is the way it going to be....we just need to accept it.
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Re: Foreign Players on Benfica

Postby inMotionSLB » Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:19 pm

I think players playing in their national league vs National team improvement is a bit of a myth.

Portugal has players all over the place, and so does Uruguay? Brazil?

Look at England, nearly 100% play in the premiership and they underachieve.

Thing is if we want our Portugal team to do better, we must let our players move on to better leagues, although one could argue why dont they stay put and make our league better? Answers is we don't have enough money to do that, until then, I'm afraid everyone will want to move as soon as they get a sniff of the outdoors. This is modern football these days, and unfortunately, money wins.
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Re: Foreign Players on Benfica

Postby MichaelSLB » Tue Aug 09, 2011 7:42 am

Hope in the future some Portuguese players can stay at Portuguese clubs their entire career. I wish Coentrao stayed with us, he looked so committed to the club.
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Re: Foreign Players on Benfica

Postby ja_santacruz » Tue Aug 09, 2011 12:49 pm

England is considered one of the best leagues in the world. As for players playing in their country country helping the national team being a myth?

Yes..... Because them playing in Cyprus etc is of great benefit in the long run. :doh

I value morales over trophies. If I wanted to be a glory hunter, then I would not have supported the clubs throughout the hard times.

As for it being the smaller teams that affect the situation. I don't believe so, the reason they buy foreign players on the cheap, is because of the strength of the top 3. A team simply can't afford the time of letting a youngster develop. When they can have an experienced brazilian for half the price.

The big three are those that can change things. The clubs with the power to do so. Not smaller clubs.

In a perfect world in my eyes, you would have a 3 player homegrown rule.
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Re: Foreign Players on Benfica

Postby inMotionSLB » Tue Aug 09, 2011 7:41 pm

This is a typical situation of "if the law allows, then I shall do it, because it's within the law". So clubs take advantage and start buying/selling to make profit and lower their debts.

Only way to solve this, as you said, would be the homegrown rule, but that would be up to the FPF to do.

If Benfica went for morale, it could be 17 years and still going without a title, so I can't blame them in a way if EVERYONE is trying to do the same thing. Otherwise you would be eaten alive.

So if the FPF can sort their mess out, then all clubs would have to play by the same rules and it would be fair again.
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The Future

Postby dinisarruda » Sun Aug 21, 2011 6:03 am

I have been following benfica since i have been a child and i dont think i have ever seen a team with so little portuguese players. Is the player pool in portugal that small or low quality? I am also assuming that the top clubs are going with outside talent to be more compeitive with the rest of europe.
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Re: The Future

Postby Indaro » Sun Aug 21, 2011 11:56 am

The best Portuguese players play abroad and that includes many youth players.
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Re: Foreign Players on Benfica

Postby ja_santacruz » Sun Aug 21, 2011 1:36 pm

Agreed, the FPF should introduce something. The awful thing is I am enjoying watching the Liga Orangina more the our top league. Purely because I am watching some Portuguese football.

Up until 5 years ago we had never not had a Portuguese player on the pitch. Then it changed for five minutes. This year... well we all know our clubs lineup.

But heh, football is all about opinions, I have mine and I am sure many have theirs ;)

I just don't enjoy not being able to relate to the players. I mean Bruno Cesar kissed our badge yesterday etc... It's ridiculous, hes been with us for less than 4 months. And acts as though he is a Benfiquista? He would have done that same action regardless of what club he was at. (Was a great goal though lol)

I mean the commentators yesterday were a pile of rubbish. I recall them saying that you can tell whether a player is a great one because there is no adaptation period. Talking about Nolito.

Do I need to mention Lisandro Lopez to them? He hardly had the greatest first season, but just think what he done afterwards.
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Re: Foreign Players on Benfica

Postby Aguia » Tue Aug 23, 2011 3:00 pm

As much as i want to see 11 world class Portuguese players on our team sheet every week, economically speaking it just doesn't work out that way. For one, most Portuguese players of world quality play outside Portugal or are shared between the three big clubs in Portugal and we have to be honest and say that there aren't 40 odd world class player per generation in Portugal, it's a competitive market and foreign clubs can outbid us and offer far higher wages, not to mention, we can't afford to turn down big money deals.

Personally, i would rather see us have a successful team then religiously stick to Portuguese players for the sake of national pride. Sporting had this policy for year and what did they win? Athletic Bilbao field only Basque players, and they aren't a winning team either. Conversely, we bought Di Maria, David Luiz, Ramires etc, who were a great players, helped us win a title then made a huge profit in a big transfer abroad. We can't afford not to make those deal and be in the market for those players. The Portuguese players we could feasibly sign, Quaresma, Manuel Fernandes, Almeida say, are good players for sure, but would be expensive to sign, have high salaries, no resale value and wouldn't necessarily give us anything more than a player costing half as much from South America (as long as he had been scouted properly). It's a simple choice when put like that.

All being well, some of the younger players we have now, like Nelson Oliveira, Ruben Pinto, Mika, Miguel Rosa etc, will develop into players capable of representing a club of our stature.
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